Women priests not even in 1000 years
mscperu wrote to an other priest on that board
The joy of the Lord be with you.
I congratulate you on your great job in answering the questions posted on the Catholicism board.
Recently I read one of your answers that convey some doubt regarding the authority of the papal letter "sacerdotalis ordinatio" as if the impossibility of woman ordination was only a conjectural problem. It seems to imply that other Popes in the future might change that. Perhaps I have understood wrongly the implication of you words. After the corresponding part of you response, I annex a declaration of the CDF.
I would like to draw your attention to the phrase: " This teaching requires definitive assent… explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith."
gave this response on 1/16/2001:
Ordination is for service not for power and domination -- though some have unfortunately used it for that.
One can serve as a layperson in all kinds of lay ministry. There are church programs with degrees in training lay ministers. One need not be a nun for that is a special calling.
The Church especially with our present Pope in no way is going to change to allow women to be ordained -- we are having a hard enough time in allowing married men of the Roman Rite to get ordained.
Some day, the Church might see the validity for women's ordination, but certainly not under these circumstances.
Pliease read this declaration:
CONCERNING THE TEACHING CONTAINED IN ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS RESPONSUM AD DUBIUM
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
October 28, 1995
Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter <Ordinatio Sacerdotalis> to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.
Responsum: In the affirmative.
This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church <Lumen Gentium> 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.
The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved this Reply, adopted in the ordinary session of this Congregation, and ordered it to be published.
Rome, from the offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on the Feast of the Apostles SS. Simon and Jude, October 28, 1995.
Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli
declined to answer on 1/17/2001:
Popes have made numerous decisions over the centuries and someone else changes them. Only time will prove whether one side is right or wrong. I always accept things as they are now and what has been said now. I am feel that this may not always be what the church will do, but it certainly is what the church now holds. Blessings.
Same date posted as open question on the board
The joy of the Lord be with you.
There has been on this board a question regarding the ordination of women as priests in the Catholic Church.
There has been also some answer that casts doubt on the future of this element of the Catholics doctrine as if it could change in the future. That's why I present here the official statement of the Catholic Church.
His Holiness John Paul has declared solemnly:
"Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. <Lk> 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful." (Ordinatio sacerdotalis).
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
October 28, 1995 responded to the question if it's a question of faith (unchangeable) or discipline (adaptable in some future moment):
"This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church <Lumen Gentium> 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith."
I would like to draw your attention to the phrasing:
"This teaching requires definitive assent... infallibly ... explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith."
There can be modification of pastoral procedures. However, when a dogma is reaffirmed Catholics know that this is not to be changed ever.
Please look at the following affirmations in order to comprehend the implications of the pronouncements.
"The Pope is not proclaiming some new doctrine. Rather he is confirming what the entire Church east and west has always known and lived in faith. The Church has always seen and recognized the Twelve as the normative model for the entire priestly ministry and the Church has been subject to this model from the beginning.
These twelve men are tied to the mystery of the Incarnation in such a way that they were ontologically changed to truly be real and living images (icons) of Christ….
Furthermore, to understand that this teaching implies no injustice or discrimination against women, one has to consider the nature of the ministerial priesthood itself, which is a service and not a position of privilege or human power over others. … Priestly ministry constitutes neither the universal ideal nor even less, the goal of Christian life. In this connection, it is helpful to recall once again that "the only higher gift, which can and must be desired, is charity" (cf. 1 Cor 12-13; <Inter insigniores>, VI)…
Here, however, we find ourselves before the essential interdependence of Holy Scripture and Tradition, an interdependence which makes of these two forms of the transmission of the Gospel an unbreakable unity with the Magisterium, which is an integral part of Tradition and is entrusted with the authentic interpretation of the Word of God, written and handed down (<Dei Verbum>, nn. 9 and 10)…
The singular originality of the Church and of the priestly ministry within the Church requires a precise clarity of criteria. Concretely, one must never lose sight of the fact that the Church does not find the source of her faith and her constitutive structure in the principles of the social order of any historical period… It is a question of a radical faithfulness to the Word of God, which she has received from Christ who established her to last until the end of the ages. This Word of God, in proclaiming the essential value and eternal destiny of every person, reveals the ultimate foundation of the dignity of every being, of every woman and of every man." (Card. Ratzinger)
The ministerial priesthood is precisely at the service of every woman and of every man so that they might attain to be perfect in their dignity.
God bless you
Missionary of the Sacred Heart
irishgirl gave this response on 1/18/2001:
No, not enough.
With the guidance of the Spirit this discriminatory teaching will change. The blessing that women can bring to the ministry of sacrament and service which is the priesthood will be accepted and welcomed.
We shall talk about it in some 1000 more years, in heaven if the Lord has mercy on me. If you don’t find me there you'll have to call "long distance".
Then I'm very much afraid you'll have to admit and should it be only this once in all your blessed life: "Remember that response of mine on Askme.com? I was wrong!"
In the meantime, why don't we look at the following clarifications in order to have an enlightened debate instead of mere passionate affirmations?
WHY WOMEN CAN'T BE PRIESTS
Lost in the debate over women priests is the reason for the Church's teaching. A top woman theologian explains why the Church has always believed what it believes.
By Mary DeTurris
THE SACRAMENTS AND AUTHENTIC WOMANHOOD
BY DALE O'LEARY
LETTER TO PRIESTS FOR HOLY THURSDAY
Pope John Paul II
"Dear Brother Priests! Do not be surprised if I begin this Letter, which I traditionally address to you on Holy Thursday, with the words of a Polish Marian hymn. I do so because this year I wish to speak to you <about the importance of women in the life of the priest>, and these verses which I have sung since my childhood can serve as a meaningful introduction to this subject."
You see? Women are a unique and special blessing for the Church, don't you doubt it! John Paul II has written stunningly about this issue.
If you are Catholic, you'll have to blame Jesus Christ for this discriminatory behavior because His way to do things is mandatory teaching for the Church. Moreover, He promised His Church the Holy Spirit's undeviating support. Guilty twice over!
If you are non-Catholic, you'll have to blame just the Church! In your view the Catholic Church is wrong for over 500 years... (quite recently).
See you in 1000 years. It's a deal?
irishgirl gave this response on 1/19/2001:
It's a deal, Yes I am Catholic. The Holy Father writings re women are excellent from the woman's point of view. However I will hold to my "passionate" view. Could we bring the date forward to say 100 years. I would behappy to start apologising them maybe John Paul would take me on as a pupil, so that I can learn where I went wrong.
I wanted fit in the following as a comment together with the grading. However, they tell me it's to long. Therefore, I put it here with your permission under the disguise of a follow-up question.
Please, don't be so impatient. Remember, in God's eyes a moment is like a 1000 years.
Besides, you are not to blame (much). I read that some Irish Church Commission wants to change the Bible and take out all things they consider offensive to women. Will they obliterate the "man head of woman" thing in Eph 5, 22? I would have some additional suggestions so my conscience would be freer to do what I want to do.
The Irish Church was the last defense in Europe. Even you don't have vocations to priesthood any more. Doesn't that make you think? Look at the other Churches. Holland is an example in case. That's where you are headed.
Do you know that John Paul II had an audience with the Lord precisely in order to consult Him? The Pope asked Him if He would allow women priests? The answer: "Not even in a thousand years!" At the end of the conversation, John Paul asked a final question: "Lord, when will there be an other Polish Pope?" The Lord answered: "Just wait a moment!"
Is it a coincidence that the denominations that have admitted women priests admit abortion and divorce?
Don't get me wrong. It's not about gender. It's about coherence. If you cede in one point to pressure of a fashionable issue and change doctrine why shouldn't the Church do the same in other points?
PS. Why not start now? Has the Pope been wrong somewhere else? Mathematical probabilities would abundantly justify not only your learning now but also your apologizing now. Your margin of miscalculation in this would be nano-negligible. Practically non-existent!